Tom, I agree with you that it is up to the individual to decide the 
appropriate risks one should undertake in ones life. But the difference 
here is the instructor/student relationship. How do you know if the risks 
justify the benefits if you don't know what the risks are? It is up to 
the instructor to teach, inform and guide the student through this 
process.

And until the teaching process is over the instructor has a moral and 
contractual imperative to make sure the student survies the teaching 
process or has the intellectual foresight and balls to cut the student 
loose if that the student is not capable of the rigors of the process.

To do otherwise is downright criminal. Student fees, equipment sales 
profits, ego and other factors are no excuse.

In this light the instructor must know what equipment works and what does 
not, what techniques work and what do not. The instructors primary 
objective is to make sure his student lives through the learning 
experience even at the cost of the instructors life.

If you dumbass instructors can't handle this, then get the hell out of 
the business.

I am not the most experienced diver on this list by a long shot but even 
I can see that certain things just don't work. Not haveing the primary 
and secondary buoyancy to handle multiple steel bottles does not take a 
rocket scientist brain to figure out. Why can't these instructors figure 
this out? No, Tom, somebody had to pay for this stupidity. The student 
has already paid, and I'm afraid that the buck does not rightfully stop 
there.

And ultimately it is you and I who will pay in both governmental 
intervention and insurance. Thanks to a few stupid, ignorant morons who 
call themselves instructors.

 Jim

On 7/3/98 1:25 PM Thomas A. Easop wrote:

>Katherine V. Irvine wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> You tell me: if at least two of those dead people recently had weighting
>> and buoyancy problems, who is at fault? Who is at fault if this
>> ridiculous combination continues to be ENFORCED , even after the recent
>> spate of accidents.
>
><snip>
>
>Kathy (or Ian):
>
>As I have said in private threads with you, the students are at fault. The
>students who take these classes are adult divers, presumably with experience.
>Buoyancy control is one of the last skills still taught in basic PADI 
>beginner
>diving. If a competent tech student cannot be called upon to exercise 
>their own
>knowledge, judgment, and skill of buoyancy control then there is a problem 
>with
>the student. If a competent tech student is instructed to dive in a manner 
>that
>they feel is dangerous (too deep/too heavy/too soon) and ignore all their
>experience and common sense, they have no one to blame except themselves.
>
>If they are not a competent student, do not have the knowledge, judgment, and
>skill that comes from experience then they do not belong in a tech class. If
>they find themselves in a class (say out of peer pressure, etc.), common 
>sense
>dictates that the student realize before they are in the water that they 
>are in
>over their head.
>
>Instructors have some responsibility, but ultimately its up to the student to
>decide to and conduct the dive.
>
>I've always conducted my diving at my pace, and at my discretion, using my 
>head,
>and been responsible for myself. With an instructor or without.
>
>I think the agencies should include a test in the class at the beginning 
>to see
>if the students are using their knowledge, skill and judgment. Have the
>instructor call the students to do something everyone knows would be too
>much-too soon or just plain dangerous. See if the students are still 
>thinking.
>That should be lesson number one. Always think for yourself.
>
>Tom
>
>--
>Guns and Armour of SCAPA FLOW
>1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks
>http://www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk
>
>
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>


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