Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
billyw wrote: > >I don't know how YOU got the idea I was 'taking the piss' out of something else. > >YOU did that. That is another inference on your part.**** > > I merely gave you the benefit of the doubt. I couldn't believe > anyone in their right mind would decide, in the face of the > overwhelming evidence to the contrary in the last two major > incidents, that the students were at fault. Please don't give me any benefit of doubt. Believe what I write. And understand where its coming from. Now tell me about the overwhelming evidence to the contrary in these last two major incidents how the student's do not share fault for their own buoyancy problems, it was all the instructor's fault. Don't feed me the instructor forced them to dive a dangerous rig. If your in a tech class you should not be a newbie. You should tell a dangerous rig by your previous experience. Trials in a pool or safe water will help this and should be part of the class. That will confirm a student's impression that his new rig is safe and manageable. (If your diving a wetsuit, the pool will not show you the effect of depth relating to your suit and buoyancy. Your experience and some thinking should give you all that's needed to raise some questions of the instructor, and really determine if the rig is safe.) It is my opinion that if a student does not ask questions relating to his own safety, is diving an entirely new rig in open water without previous use of it in a controlled situation, is in much deeper water than they ever were before, then when there is a problem, ultimately it is the student's fault. I'm not sure, but so far, I believe that everyone who rebuts my opinion here are instructors themselves. (Some rebut more eloquently than others) In fact, on a recent post by Raimo, the last death on the Doria might have been avoided by better instructors, and the agencies should do something about it. I appreciate Bob's and everyone's concern. But the bottom line is that the guy was responsible for himself. (Bob I know you said lack of experience played a part too.) I am not an instructor. Maybe that is why I feel that the students/divers have primary responsibility. Dive students are divers first, students second. I have had many instructors, in diving and other pursuits, mainly medicine. They are the messenger. If I believe the message is not consistent with my previous experience, I ask for explanation, I ask for the research, I ask for the science. I am good friends with a couple of my tech instructors. I never hesitated to ask them questions when something I was being taught struck me as odd. I do not just take their word for it. I do not just take their word when a medical instructor teaches me something new; I do that for my patient's benefit. I certainly do not take anybody's word for something when its my ass on the line. > >Yes, it is simple. Here is an analogy about the responsibility. > > Thomas, your analogy stinks. Try this one: One technical training > agency has one fatal training accident in the past year, another > tech agency has eleven. If the students are to blame, Thomas, then > one agency seems to have cornered the market on useless students. To my way of thinking, yes, maybe this agency has lower standards for admitting tech students. So if I want to take a tech class and agency x and agency y say I need more experience, but agency z says I'm ok, am I at fault for taking the class, doing the dives, and killing myself. Yup. Are the instructor and agency at fault. Yup. They are not absolved, as I said in the original post. But the buck has to stop with the student. Students are divers first, students second. In the NE USA, there is a slogan, its on the EDBA boat stickers. It says something like only you can swim for you, breath for you and think for you. A responsible diver always practices that, especially when under instruction. > And of course, by your logic, it doesn't have to do a thing about > the situation because it is the students' who are at fault. Is this > reasonable or not? > Actually, I think the idea of the agency score card is a good idea. From a consumers information point of view. A potential tech student can correlate the agency's admission requirements to the deaths. Being a diver first, they would avoid a deadly agency, even if it means waiting to take a class until they are more qualified. Tom -- Guns and Armour of SCAPA FLOW 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks http://www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]