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Don't tell the list his name because there is no need for it. Who the hell cares who this guy is. What are you going to do with his name? Ban him from this wonderful informational list? Whoooooo! Maybe you could pull his PADI master diver rating. That would show him. This list is ridiculous. If some of these "divers" on the list would try diving instead of punching their keyboard all day maybe we would have a better safety record. But of course, spout off all your stupid flames and opinions. Thank God, I wont hear any of them becuase I will be at 310 fsw today. Austin P.S. Just for your info, I actually plan on getting into the water. Not just simulating my dive on Microsoft Scuba like the majority of "tech divers" on this list. On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:34:12 -0400, kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > Mke, it is bad enough to use 80/20 in the first place, so it is no > suprise that anyone this stupid would also think that they are somehow > absolved of lung damage or CNS exposure due to the % of ox rather than > the partial pressure. It is also no suprise that these strokes then > proceeded to stage a cluster, putting all of you at risk as you so > correctly point out. > > This is what is known as a "boat monkey" dumb ass dive instructor , a > common element in "tech" diving these days. > > How about telling us who this guy is? > > > Mike Rodriguez wrote: > > > > At 06:54 AM 10/13/99 PDT, DeepH20Scuba wrote: > > > > Hmm... you seem to have misread my post. Try again. > > > > This was my longest dive on this particular wreck. I have > > rather more experience than that. You know nothing about me. > > > > All that aside, your comments indicate a shocking lack of > > knowledge. Any responsible diver with even an elementary > > understanding of CNS-O2 physiology would also have be outraged > > by a tech instructor's comment that air-breaks are not necessary > > when using an 80% O2 concentration for decompression, and that > > air-breaks are only necessary when using 100% O2. If he's telling > > his students this, and I have no reason to believe he isn't, > > then he's being grossly negligent, putting himself and his > > certifying organization at risk of a lawsuit, and he's putting > > our entire sport at risk of being regulated by the government. > > > > For the record, I don't tell anyone how to dive, but I also > > don't appreciate it when other divers demonstrate the kind > > of inconsiderate behavior the three OOA divers on this dive > > demonstrated. I use the term 'inconsiderate' because, by causing > > an OOA situation, they put *me* at risk as well as themselves since > > I had to rescue this instructor. Had I not brought with me > > enough gas to complete my own decompression and had enough > > left-over for him to complete his as well, he might well have > > spent that night in a hospital or worse. In addition to my > > safety, he also put the safety of my gear, which saved him > > from a possible DCS hit, at risk since I had to leave it with > > him so he could finish his dive. As my post indicated, this > > is not the first time I've had to do this, and I'm tired of > > it. On top of that, add the fact that the government is > > already looking into regulating this sport (the governmental > > backlash due to the recent rash of deaths on the Doria, for > > example.) The actions of irresponsible people like these > > divers cause all of this. > > > > Again, since you seem to have trouble reading, I'll reiterate. > > I don't tell anyone how to dive, but if a careless and inconsiderate > > diver puts my life, my buddy's life, or my gear in danger (which > > these guys did by virtue of their need for a rescue), I'll have > > something to say. As for your comment: > > > > "Maybe you don't know all the facts and it > > probably isn't any of your business that you do." > > > > Get with it. Read my post again. I was there; in the water > > with them on the bottom, during deco, and during the on-boat > > discussion after the dive. How could I not know all the facts > > when I rescued these guys? Furthermore, my presence on this dive > > most definitely makes it my business to know the facts since they > > *directly* affect my safety. How could you be so short-sighted > > as to not see this and not be as outraged as I am? > > > > -Mike Rodriguez > > <mikey@ma*.co*> > > > > >Judging by your experience level, (my longest dive, 150fsw for 30 min, a > > >cakewalk dive in my neighborhood) you have no business telling an instructor > > >what to do or how to dive. This guy obviously has more experience than you > > >and you have the conceit to demand an explanation from him about his > > >dive???!@!# Maybe you don't know all the facts and it probably isn't any of > > >your business that you do. > > > > > >I am glad that he ruined your day and your dive. Maybe it will make guys > > >like you think twice about going on the boat trips and keep you away from > > >guys like me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > Dive Report: Clinton (10/2/99) > > >> > > > >> > A group of five divers dove the Clinton Saturday > > >> > (10/2/99) off the > > >> > Tonto. Bob Sheridan of Anchor SCUBA was captain. > > >> > The conditions > > >> > were good. There was a light breeze, and the ocean > > >> > was running about > > >> > three feet. It was sunny and warm. There was a > > >> > moderate surface > > >> > current at maybe 3/4 knot with no discernable bottom > > >> > current at all. > > >> > Visibility at the bottom was about 80 feet and about > > >> > 40 feet near > > >> > the surface. Air temperature was around 88 and > > >> > water temperature > > >> > was about 76 at the bottom and 80 near the surface. > > >> > > > >> > I had agreed with Bob earlier that I would jump the > > >> > wreck with > > >> > the floatline, and my dive buddy, Mark Zurl, > > >> > volunteered to jump > > >> > with me. Bob set us up and we jumped. We headed > > >> > down at about > > >> > 150 FPM so we were on the wreck in about 60 seconds. > > >> > The drop > > >> > was nearly perfect. I tied in the floatline near > > >> > the middle > > >> > of the ship on the port side and made a mental note > > >> > of the > > >> > non-existent current. I exchanged OKs with Mark and > > >> > began exploring. > > >> > > > >> > My planned bottom time was 30 minutes and this would > > >> > be my longest > > >> > dive to-date on the Clinton. I intended to enjoy > > >> > every minute of > > >> > it. I immediately headed over the starboard side to > > >> > the sand at 172 > > >> > feet and swam toward the stern. There were a few of > > >> > the usual critters > > >> > near the bottom of the hull in the sand... crabs and > > >> > a few anonymous > > >> > fish. Along the way, I found one of the explosion > > >> > holes made during > > >> > the sinking and went inside. I was in a corridor > > >> > with electrical > > >> > boxes, electric motors connected to what looked like > > >> > pumps, > > >> > and various other hardware. Near one of the > > >> > electric motors > > >> > I found several things that were about the size and > > >> > shape of > > >> > batteries, but I could see no terminal posts. I > > >> > must have spent > > >> > several minutes there just staring at these things > > >> > trying to > > >> > figure out what they were. I never did. I'll go > > >> > back again > > >> > next time and take another look. > > >> > > > >> > When I got tired of staring at the battery-like > > >> > things, I exited > > >> > the corridor the same way I entered and continued my > > >> > swim toward > > >> > the stern. Along the way, I swam under a part of > > >> > the side of > > >> > the ship that had collapsed to the sand and formed > > >> > an interesting > > >> > swim-through. I reached another explosion hole and > > >> > entered > > >> > the wreck again. This time, I swam down a short > > >> > corridor, > > >> > through a bulkhead and into one of the cargo holds. > > >> > By now, > > >> > the other three divers were on the wreck and > > >> > exploring. I made > > >> > a mental note that all five of us were down now. > > >> > > > >> > Continuing through the cargo hold toward the stern I > > >> > found an > > >> > old compressor with an electric motor. It looked > > >> > like a > > >> > single-stage low pressure deal. I headed up to the > > >> > deck > > >> > and swam further along when I passed an opening in > > >> > the deck. > > >> > I stuck my head in to look around and was astonished > > >> > at the > > >> > sight of a jewfish that mush have weighed 250+ lbs. > > >> > It was > > >> > enormous. I must have startled it because it > > >> > immediately > > >> > and gracefully swam through a bulkhead and I lost > > >> > sight of it. > > >> > I wanted to follow the fish, but the hole I'd stuck > > >> > my head in > > >> > was too small for me to get through. I quickly > > >> > looked around > > >> > in the direction the fish had gone and found another > > >> > similar > > >> > hole that appeared to be past the bulkhead the fish > > >> > swam through, > > >> > so I swam there and looked in... nothing. This huge > > >> > fish managed > > >> > to completely disappear without a trace. I sat > > >> > there imagining > > >> > the fish hiding someplace and snickering at how > > >> > easily it could > > >> > evade me, then I continued my dive hoping to get one > > >> > more lucky > > >> > glimpse of that fish... I never did see it again, > > >> > though. > > >> > > > >> > I finally made it to the stern and I stared at the > > >> > two pairs > > >> > of rings on the back of the ship. I've speculated > > >> > about what > > >> > they were since my first dive here, but I've never > > >> > been able > > >> > to figure it out. Later, on the boat, one of the > > >> > other divers > > >> > pointed out to me that the rings were probably used > > >> > to anchor > > >> > the Clinton (which is a barge) to the bottom of the > > >> > ocean by > > >> > running pilings through the rings. That made sense, > > >> > but I'd > > >> > think there would be similar rings on the other end > > >> > of the > > >> > ship, and there aren't any. Maybe there were at one > > >> > time. > > >> > I don't know. > > >> > > > >> > About now, my bottom time was approaching my planned > > >> > 30 minutes > > >> > and I headed back toward the line. Mark was on the > > >> > line headed > > >> > up, and I could see one of the other divers still on > > >> > the wreck. > > >> > I recognized him as the one who had volunteered to > > >> > unhook us, > > >> > and I let him know that I was now leaving the wreck. > > >> > As I left > > >> > the wreck, I saw a cool optical illusion created by > > >> > light and > > >> > shadow playing over part of the ship's structure. > > >> > For a second, > > >> > it looked like large black bird perched on a railing > > >> > near where > > >> > the floatline was attached. A moment later, the > > >> > illusion was gone. > > >> > I kept staring in that direction hoping I could get > > >> > the effect > > >> > back, but the bird was gone for good. I grinned > > >> > letting some > > >> > water in my mask which I quickly cleared, then I > > >> > headed on up. > > >> > > > >> > While moving along beside the floatline, I took a > > >> > look at > > >> > my Nitek 3 (which is not suitable for mix diving) > > >> > and noticed > > >> > that it coincidentally indicated about the same deco > > >> > as my tables. > > >> > This seems to hold pretty well for dives to about > > >> > 180 feet with > > >> > moderate bottom times. It diverges rapidly on > > >> > deeper or longer > > >> > dives, but it's good to have a feel for what the > > >> > Nitek says on > > >> > these dives in case it somehow becomes my only > > >> > source of deco > > >> > information some day. > > >> > > > >> > In the zero-current, I just free-swam near the line > > >> > and regulated > > >> > my ascent with buoyancy. I was still in sight of > > >> > the last diver > > >> > when I reached my first deep stop and saw that he > > >> > was unhooking > > >> > the floatline. I continued my deco as usual except > > >> > that I was > > >> > trying a new way to carry my tables on this dive. > > >> > > > >> > I usually generate my schedules with Decom and write > > >> > them on my > > >> > slate and keep my contingency schedules on a pad in > > >> > my pocket. On > > >> > this dive, I switched to Voyager, which prints > > >> > tables in a much > > >> > more compact format. The plan as well as several > > >> > contingencies > > >> > end up on one small, easy-to-read piece of paper. > > >> > It occurred to > > >> > me that the time-consuming and error-prone process > > >> > of manually > > >> > transcribing Decom tables onto slates and pads could > > >> > be bypassed > > >> > by finding a way to take the Voyager tables with me > > >> > on the dives. > > >> > I've seen other divers use some sort of plastic > > >> > lamination to > > >> > do exactly this, but the lamination always seem to > > >> > be peeling > > >> > off and the tables are always hard to read so I went > > >> > to a local > > >> > office supply store and bought a quality laminating > > >> > machine. It > > >> > was expensive, but I'm glad I bought it. This > > >> > machine uses a > > >> > cold adhesive laminating process instead of heat; > > >> > and I think the > > >> > adhesive works far better for this application. My > > >> > tables stayed > > >> > dry and readable during my deco and as a bonus, I > > >> > can reuse them > > >> > next time I dive the Clinton without having to > > >> > calculate everything > > >> > again. > > >> > > > >> > Anyway, I was at my 10 foot deco stop with Mark when > > >> > I noticed > > >> > there seemed to be a problem with the other three > > >> > divers. They > > >> > were all hanging on the line at about 10 feet and > > >> > looking at > > >> > and comparing gauges unusually frequently; a sure > > >> > sign that > > >> > there's a gas shortage. I grimaced and hoped I was > > >> > wrong. > > >> > > > >> > It turns out that these guys had done a deep dive > > >> > earlier in the > > >> > day and failed to account for the residual in their > > >> > dive planning > > >> > (yeah, what planning) for this dive. Due to the > > >> > multi-dive > > >> > profile, they had over two hours of deco time > > >> > pending (according > > >> > to their dive computers) and had nowhere near enough > > >> > gas to finish > > >> > it. What's even more perplexing is that they were > > >> > all diving on > > >> > computers and should have seen the deco time rising > > >> > rapidly if > > >> > they'd bothered to look at the computer from time to > > >> > time while on > > >> > the bottom. This was about as big a CF as you can > > >> > have without > > >> > anyone actually getting hurt. To make matters > > >> > worse, one of these > > >> > guys is a tech instructor! Frankly, it was > > >> > inexcusable. > > >> > > > >> > If I seem irate, it's because I am. I love tech > > >> > diving. I put > > >> > up with the hassles, the gear, the expense, the long > > >> > deco, and > > >> > all the other crap because I enjoy it so much. > > >> > However, when > > >> > something like this happens, it ruins my whole day. > > >> > Here I am > > >> > at the end of a great dive and it's overshadowed by > > >> > the threat > > >> > of injury or worse to a bunch of guys who couldn't > > >> > be bothered > > >> > to plan a dive. I ended up wishing I'd never gone > > >> > diving that > > >> > day, and it sucked. > > >> > > > >> > When my deco was complete, I unhooked my O2, made > > >> > eye-contact > > >> > with the guy I was going to give it to (the > > >> > instructor), pointed > > >> > at the MOD and made certain that he understood, then > > >> > I clipped > > >> > it onto him. I looked at his computer which still > > >> > indicated over > > >> > 100 minutes of deco. I signaled that I was heading > > >> > up to the boat > > >> > and I left. While the most present thing on my mind > > >> > was the safety > > >> > of the OOA diver, a close second was the memory of > > >> > my perfectly > > >> > good aluminum 30 deco bottle and regulator that now > > >> > sits at the > > >> > bottom of the ocean somewhere. In a similar > > >> > incident a few years > > >> > ago, another OOA diver dropped my bottle when he > > >> > finished his deco. > > >> > I was never reimbursed for it and got only an > > >> > apology for the > > >> > loss of several hundred dollars worth of gear. > > >> > > > >> > Once on the boat, I got in a healthy dose of > > >> > complaining. > > >> > Mark was already aboard and he, Bob and I discussed > > >> > what to > > >> > do. Meanwhile, one of the three remaining divers > > >> > surfaced. > > >> > His deco went normally and only the last two were in > > >> > trouble. > > >> > We decided to send down additional O2 for the OOA > > >> > divers. > > >> > I have a steel 72 with two second stages on 10 foot > > >> > hoses. I > > >> > usually use it to breath prophylactic O2 for a few > > >> > minutes after > > >> > a dive. The long hoses allow me to move around the > > >> > boat easily > > >> > and pack my gear while I do this. This bottle is > > >> > also along with > > >> > me in case of a DCS emergency. Since these things > > >> > often happen > > >> > in pairs (two buddies) I have two second stages on > > >> > long hoses > > >> > on it. We decided to send this bottle down and clip > > >> > it to the > > >> > line. There was plenty of gas in it to finish > > >> > decoing the OOA > > >> > divers. Bob found a slate and began scratching out > > >> > a message; > > >> > I suggested he mention that the guys down there > > >> > should be taking > > >> > air-breaks due to the long deco. > > >> > > > >> > I got my O2 tank ready to take down. Thoughts of my > > >> > beloved > > >> > steel 72 complete with 10 foot hoses neatly stowed > > >> > in their > > >> > bungies resting at the bottom of the ocean after > > >> > being dropped > > >> > by a careless diver flashed through my mind. Then, > > >> > unexpectedly, > > >> > one of the two remaining divers surfaced (not the > > >> > one with my > > >> > deco bottle). He indicated that his deco was > > >> > complete but that > > >> > the remaining diver (the instructor for heaven's > > >> > sake) still had > > >> > quite a bit of deco left. This is the same guy who > > >> > unhooked the > > >> > line and I wondered, in astonishment, what lead him > > >> > to stay down > > >> > there so long. Before we managed to get my O2 > > >> > bottle in the > > >> > water, he surfaced (fortunately, with my deco bottle > > >> > still securely > > >> > clipped). > > >> > > > >> > We got him aboard and asked for an explanation. > > >> > Essentially, the > > >> > explanation was that the dive wasn't planned, and > > >> > before they knew > > >> > it, their computers racked up two hours of deco. > > >> > Pretty poor > > >> > explanation, I think. I asked if he'd taken > > >> > air-breaks and he > > >> > (get this) said that they weren't needed because he > > >> > was only > > >> > breathing 80% not 100%. And this guy is a tech > > >> > instructor? > > >> > > > >> > I gently suggested that he was in error and that > > >> > air-breaks are > > >> > dictated by the CNS 'clock' approaching 100% and > > >> > their need has > > >> > no direct relation to the FO2. If the PO2 is over > > >> > .5, the CNS > > >> > 'clock' is ticking. Before it runs out, you take > > >> > air-breaks or > > >> > you risk a tox. How a tech instructor could be so > > >> > blissfully > > >> > unaware of this is utterly beyond me. Despite my > > >> > explanation, > > >> > he insisted that air-breaks are not necessary on 80% > > >> > deco. > > >> > Whatever. > > >> > > > >> > The trip back was uneventful and other than the CF > > >> > at the end, > > >> > I enjoyed the dive. I will not dive with those guys > > >> > again, > > >> > though. > > >> > > > >> > -Mike Rodriguez > > >> > <mikey@ma*.co*> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ============================================================ > > >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > >> > listserv@mi*.ne* > > >> > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > >> > unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> ===== > > >> > > >> __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ > > >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > > >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > >-- > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike Rodriguez > > <mikey@ma*.co*> > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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